(“Here’s The Thing” radio show, 30 July
2012)
Announcer: I’m Alec Baldwin and this is Here’s the Thing from WNYC Radio.
Billy Joel’s fans have
gotten to know him quite well over the past four decades [music comes in]. From
the open-hearted declarations of old-fashioned love, and “She’s Got a Way” and
“Just The Way You Are,” to the hard-rocking, social commentaries “We Didn’t
Start the Fire” and “Allentown.” [Music comes in]
If, like me, you grew up
listening to Billy Joel’s music, you can chart phases of your life by each of
his albums. Maybe that’s because Billy Joel’s songs are so passionately
connected to who he was at the time he wrote them. And when you’re actually
sitting in the same room as him, with a piano nearby, well, you can’t help
yourself.
Alec Baldwin: Play me
something. If you don’t mind. Because your fans would demand that. I just
always remember you said that to me years ago, how predictable it was wherever
you were that there was a piano people were always like, ‘Billy? Could you? Uh,
do you mind? Just a couple of songs, for the holidays.'
Billy Joel: 'It’s his
birthday, you know.'
Alec Baldwin: 'It’s Christmas,
and we were wondering if you could play –'
Billy Joel: 'There it is,
and it’s tuned. You just had it tuned. Just for you.'
Alec Baldwin: 'We’re such
fans.'
Billy Joel: 'You don’t
mind, right?'
Alec Baldwin: And that’s
your life, right?
Billy Joel: Yeah.
Alec Baldwin: That’s your
life.
Billy Joel: Yes. But, you
know, it’s fun. You can’t have act-alongs – you’re an actor – you can’t act
along, but you can have sing-alongs. I can always sit down at a party, play the
piano, and everybody starts singing. I go to a pub in English [speaks quickly
in English accent] ‘Ey, come on now Billy, give us a couple of songs, come on,
there we go, yes uptown girl, uptown girl,’ and they all sit around, they sing,
and everybody has a blast. It’s fun. It creates a community, instantly.
Announcer: Billy Joel is
the third-best-selling solo artist of all time in the United States. He’s sold
more records than The Stones, Bruce Springsteen, and Madonna. But he admits
there’s still room for improvement.
Billy Joel: I know what good
piano playing is and I’m not good. My left hand is lame. I am a two-fingered
left-hand piano player.
Alec Baldwin: As opposed
to?
Billy Joel: As opposed to
somebody who knows what they’re doing with their left hand. I never practiced
enough to use all my fingers on my left hand, so I just play octaves, bass
notes. My right hand tries to compensate for my left hand being so gimpy, so I
overplay on my right hand. My technique is horrible. I can’t read music. I
never really got--
Alec Baldwin: You don’t read
music?
Billy Joel: I used to but
I don’t anymore. I forgot how.
Alec Baldwin: If I took a
piece of music that you didn’t know, if I got a score and put it in front of
you and I said, 'Play this—'
Billy Joel: It would be
Chinese.
Alec Baldwin: It would be
Chinese to you. How did that happen?
Billy Joel: It’s like a
language. If you stop speaking it often enough, you can forget.
Alec Baldwin: When did
you stop, and why?
Billy Joel: Remember in Dances
With Wolves, she forgot how to speak English? That was me. [Unintelligible
mimicking of character]
Alec Baldwin: You are
Favors Right Hand, they call you.
Billy Joel: Favors Right
Hand.
Alec Baldwin: Favors
Right Hand. The tribe told you that, the music school at the reservation.
Billy Joel: Yes. I
started taking lessons when I was about 4 or 5, and I went up until I was about
16, so it was almost 12 years of classical piano lessons. I loved it but, I
just, when you become a teenager, everything changes. I didn’t want to read
other people’s dots anymore. And I also realized early on, I’m not going to be
a concert pianist. I don’t have the Rachmaninoff hands, the Horowitz hands. I
had strong hands but short fingers.
Alec Baldwin: You had
Johnny Friendly’s hands?
Billy Joel: Who’s Johnny
Friendly?
Alec Baldwin: From On
The Waterfront. You were a union boss doing the shape-up down at the dock
in Hoboken.
Billy Joel: Yeah. 'It was
my mother.'
Alec Baldwin: Right. 'You
should’ve taken better care of me, Charlie.'
Billy Joel: 'You
should’ve looked out for me, Charlie. Just a little bit.'
Alec Baldwin: 'A little
bit.'
Billy Joel: 'So what do I
get? A one-way ticket to Palookaville. I’m a bum, Charlie. Let’s face it.
That’s what I am.'
Alec Baldwin: 'That’s
what I am.' My favorite line is when Rod Steiger’s laying there and he says,
'Whatever you do, don’t leave him like this. I’m going to take it out on the
skulls.' There’s six different consonants in that, 'Skulllzzz.' So you’re a
kid, but was there an intimation in your household? [Cross talk]
Billy Joel: There was a
piano.
Alec Baldwin: Right,
classical music, right.
Billy Joel: Yeah. My
father was a classically trained pianist. He grew up in Nuremberg, Germany, and
he also went to school in Switzerland. His father was quite well off. They had
a mail-order textile business, Joel Macht Fabrik, so he had to learn to play
the piano. It was a very musical family. He could play Chopin. He could play
all the great stuff. He should’ve become a musician. He became an engineer. He
worked for G.E. and then he was in promotion, but he was never really happy
because he didn’t become a musician.
We had an old upright
piano in the house, a Lester piano, a real piece of junk, and I happened to
inherit that thing. It ended up being a planter in the garden. My mom used it
to grow honeysuckle. She sang. Her family were all singing – Gilbert &
Sullivan, English music-hall people. Her family was English. So I grew up in a
very musical home. I heard music all the time. My father was playing. My mother
would sing. The radio was always on, listening to Milton Cross and the opera on
Sunday. 'Leonora enters, wearing a white gown.'
So I used to bang on the
piano. My mom got sick of hearing me bang and she dragged me down the street
and I started taking lessons, and I took to it.
Alec Baldwin: You and the
Lester and your mother and father – where is this? The Bronx?
Billy Joel: This is in
Hicksville.
Alec Baldwin: Everybody
was in Hicksville?
Billy Joel: We were in
Hicksville. My family moved with me out of the Bronx when I was a baby, maybe a
year old.
Alec Baldwin: So you
basically grew up on the Island?
Billy Joel: I grew up on
the Island, in the Levittown section of Hicksville. We had a Levitt house, Cape
Code, on the quarter acre. Everybody’s house looked the same—started out
looking the same. Now it doesn’t look anything like Levittown.
Alec Baldwin: Like my
town. Sixteen years old, Hicksville, Long Island, Vietnam War going on. Very,
very tumultuous times. And all of a sudden what do you decide you want to do?
Billy Joel: Well, I
joined a band when I was 14. I was asked to be in a band.
Alec Baldwin: The Echoes?
Billy Joel: This was The
Echoes, a garage band. They were all guitars, because there really were no
keyboards that you could amplify. I played the piano; I never played the organ.
They finally figured out how to amplify keyboards. I think the Dave Clark Five
was the first band that had an organ you could her, a Vox organ, it was called.
[Alec and Billy sing
along to “Bits and Pieces” and “Glad All Over.”]
Billy Joel: The most
unglad-sounding song in the world.
Alec Baldwin: He was
constipated. He felt that. So you amplified the keyboard.
Billy Joel: We got an
organ and they decided I had the best voice in the band, which isn’t really
saying much because nobody could sing all that well in the band. We couldn’t
even harmonize. We were very bad singers, but they decided, 'You’ve got the
best voice. You’ll sing the songs.' Ok.
Alec Baldwin: How did you
feel about that?
Billy Joel: I felt a
little funny about it, because I’m not a front man, where you stand with a mic,
like Mick Jagger. I didn’t have the Mick Jagger moves. I had a keyboard. You’re
kind of locked in. You can’t move around. You can’t carry a keyboard around
with you unless you’re an accordion player, and that looks like Lawrence Welk.
'A one, and-a two.' So I stood at the piano or I sat at the piano, but then I
realized, you know, that girl that I always had a crush on is actually looking
at me. She’d never looked at me twice, all those years at school. We’re playing
at the Holy Family Church, the church dance. I was about 15, 16. Virginia is
looking at me. You know, “Come out, Virginia,” that Virginia. She’s looking at
me and I’m like, 'Oh, my God, she’s looking at me.' And the band sounded great,
I loved what I was doing, the crowd went 'Yay' when we finished every song, and
at the end of the night the priest gave us each $15.00, which in 1965 was
$1,500. That was it. The door locked behind me, this is what I’m gonna to do. I
don’t want to go to Carnegie Hall anymore – but I end up going to Carnegie Hall
anyway.
Alec Baldwin: What music
were you performing? Covers of other people?
Billy Joel: Jukebox
bands. We were playing early Beatles, Stones, Sam the Sham and the Pharaohs.
Alec Baldwin: And during
that time, when you’re seeing Tommy James and The Shondells and all that music,
who, were you saying to yourself, if at all, were you saying, 'That’s what I
want to be. That’s who I really admire or look up,' or 'I want to have his
career?'
Billy Joel: Well, I liked
a lot of different kinds of music. I already came out of a classical
background, and I really dug jazz when I was in my early teens: Dave Brubeck,
Oscar Peterson, Art Tatum, Jimmy Smith, Bill Evans – I loved jazz. But I
realized I ain’t gonna be one of those guys either.
Alec Baldwin: Why?
Billy Joel: Because I
wasn’t a good enough pianist. I mean, these guys are as virtuostic,
virtuistic—whatever—
Alec Baldwin: Virtuosic.
Billy Joel: Virtuosic as
the classical—
Alec Baldwin: Virtuostic
is a religion.
Billy Joel: Is it?
Alec Baldwin: Yeah. It’s
a religion. I’m kidding. They’re good. They’re just good.
Billy Joel: They’re just
really good. I mean, the top-of-the-line guys are the top of the line in
classical and jazz. They could’ve gone either way. The top-of-the-line
classical guys, had they decided to be jazz guys, could’ve been just as good as
the top jazz guys, and vice a versa. I wasn’t good enough. I was good enough to
play rock and roll, and pop. But what I really fell in love with, as a
teenager, with girls and stuff, was first I liked soul music – James Brown,
Wilson Pickett, Otis Redding, The Temptations.
Alec Baldwin: Marvin
Gaye.
Billy Joel: Marvin Gaye,
Smokey Robinson, Gladys Knight. I mean, I just loved soul.
Alec Baldwin: Did you
cover that music as well?
Billy Joel: I tried to.
Alec Baldwin: They didn’t
want that in Hicksville?
Billy Joel: Well, they
were all white people.
Alec Baldwin: Yeah,
exactly. Long Island white people.
Billy Joel: There wasn’t
anybody but white people in my school. I think there were a couple of Jews,
some Latinos. There was sprinklings, but everybody liked soul music, “Twist and
Shout,” when everybody would do, 'Come on now, shout. Come on now.' And “Louie,
Louie” – I think that was the Kingsmen. “What I Say,” Ray Charles. “See the
girl all dressed in green?” You’d make up really dirty words to that. We came
up with some really good stuff. So, I
loved that stuff, and then The Beatles came around, and there it was. Boom.
Four working class guys from Liverpool, which is as close to Levittown, in
England, I think, in sounding anyway. Okay, if four guys from Liverpool –
Alec Baldwin: I never
thought of that. Levittown is our Liverpool.
Billy Joel: Yeah, Liverpool.
And uh, it’s possible, it’s possible. They don’t look like Frankie Avalon. They
don’t look like Bobbie Rydell. They look like four working class guys, from
anywhere. They could be from Hicksville. They could be from Levittown. So I
said, that’s possible. That’s what I want to do. I want to write my own songs.
I want to play in my own band, do our own arrangements, and make our own way.
Alec Baldwin: When did
that start?
Billy Joel: This is
before The Echoes, before I joined the band. The Beatles came out—
Alec Baldwin: You were a
kid.
Billy Joel: I was a kid.
I was 13.
Alec Baldwin: And you
started writing music?
Billy Joel: Yes. I
started writing ersatz Beatles songs.
Alec Baldwin: Oh did you?
Billy Joel: 'Well, I
climbed the highest mountain…'
Alec Baldwin: Yeah, 'I
want to hold your purse.'
Billy Joel: Like that,
yeah.
Alec Baldwin: 'I wanna
hold your purse.'
Billy Joel: I’m trying to
sound Liverpudlian.
Alec Baldwin:
Liverpudlian.
Billy Joel: 'She don’t
love me like before.' My own song. 'She don’t love me anymore. I believed all
the lies she told me. I, I…,' you know, that kind of thing. I’m trying to sound
like early Beatles, and it was fun. It was a lot of fun. But I was asked to
join a band after The Beatles came out, and you’ve got to remember, November of
’63, John F. Kennedy is assassinated. The country goes into the dumps. Even though we didn’t know that much about
politics or government, he was our guy. He was the young, vigorous, progressive
– he represented youth and vigor. And he was, boom, he was shot, taken away, so
everybody just turned off, like a switch turned off. We became very cynical,
depressed. The whole nation had the blues. In February of ’64, who comes out?
The Beatles come to America. We took them in and we just embraced that. [Cross
talk]
Alec Baldwin: Like
oxygen.
Billy Joel: They walked
into that space.
Alec Baldwin: Hopeful,
funny.
Billy Joel: They were
warm.
Alec Baldwin: Sexy.
Everything.
Billy Joel: Everything.
Everything that was taken away from us, great, let’s go have a party.
Alec Baldwin: Let’s
party. So you start writing songs, and you’re saying ersatz Beatles song.
What’s the first song you write that you can remember?
Billy Joel: It was called
“My Journey’s End.” I can play it if you want me to.
Alec Baldwin: Let’s hear
it.
[Billy plays and sings.]
Alec Baldwin: What’s the
first song you wrote—what’s the first song which was one that you wrote, that
you recorded? What’s the first song that—
Billy Joel: That was it.
Alec Baldwin: You
recorded that, on what?
Billy Joel: I actually
recorded that, with The Echoes, my first band. I wrote that song.
Alec Baldwin: You guys
sold records?
Billy Joel: No. We didn’t
sell one record—
Alec Baldwin: What’s the
first song you wrote – don’t even tell me, just play it – the first song that
you wrote that was on a record that you sold. Can you remember?
Billy Joel: Well, it was
probably in The Hassles.
Alec Baldwin: The Hassles
sold records?
Billy Joel: A few, on
Long Island, probably. Maybe Jersey.
Alec Baldwin: On the
turnpike.
Billy Joel: Overseas.
Alec Baldwin: At the
Woodrow Wilson rest stop.
Billy Joel: Yes, I think
it was the coffee Chock Full o’Nuts in Paramus, because we opened it. The
Hassles played at the opening. Um, the first time we ever sold anything… See, I
was signed, originally, with the Echoes to Mercury Records. We change the name
to The Lost Souls, and we were The Lost Souls for a while, and we made a couple
of records. Nothing ever happened. What was the other one.
[Billy plays and sings.]
Bill Joel: Almost like
“Mr. Moonlight.”
Alec Baldwin: Yeah,
that’s like The Beatles.
Billy Joel: And then we
became The Lost Souls, and it turns out there was an English band called The
Lost Souls, so we had to change our name. So the president of Mercury Records,
brilliant guy, at the time, said, 'We’re going to give you a new name. The
Commandos.' Vietnam was, uh, at the time. 'You’re going to be the Commandos.'
We were like, 'Ugh. We hate that name.' Nobody likes—
Alec Baldwin: War.
Billy Joel: Yeah. Nobody
likes that stuff. 'No, you’re going to be the Commandos and it’s going to be
great. We’re going to get you outfits.' So that lasted about 15 minutes, and we
got dumped off the label.
Alec Baldwin: So it’s
Echoes, Hassles.
Billy Joel: Echoes, Lost
Souls, and then Commandos.
Alec Baldwin: For a
weekend.
Billy Joel: For a
weekend.
Alec Baldwin: And you
opened up one quick Chock Full o’Nuts.
Billy Joel: And then
there was a band on Long Island, which was making a lot of local noise, called
the Hassles. They asked me to join. The guys in my band – The Echoes, The Lost
Souls – they were all going on to either the military or college. None of them
were really serious going to be musicians, except the bass player. I said, 'All
right, I’ll join The Hassles.' They wanted me to play organ. 'I’ll join
The Hassles if I can bring my bass player with me,' because they didn’t have a
bass player.
They said okay, so that
became The Hassles. And then there was another guy, he had Mick Jagger moves.
Little John, his names was. He was the front guy. Great hair. Good looking guy.
Couldn’t sing to save his ass.
Alec Baldwin: It didn’t
matter. He could wiggle it.
Billy Joel: He was
gorgeous and women just went nuts. I’m in the back doing all the singing.
Alec Baldwin: Women were
deaf.
Billy Joel: Well, but
they had eyes.
Alec Baldwin: They could
see.
Billy Joel: They could
see the music.
Alec Baldwin: Video
killed the radio star.
Billy Joel: Oh,
absolutely. I’m glad I came up in an era where it wasn’t that prevalent. So
then I was in The Hassles. Now, The Hassles were a blue-white soul band. There
were a bunch of them. The Vagrants was another one. They used to play at the
Action House all the time, in Long Island. We made two albums with United Artists
and they both bombed out. But that’s the first time we started selling
anything. “Every Step I Take” was the first song that I wrote that actually
sold something.
[Billy plays and sings.]
Billy Joel: I don’t know.
The chorus went –
[Billy plays and sings.]
Alec Baldwin: You sound
like Popeye.
[Billy plays Popeye theme
music.]
Alec Baldwin: I didn’t
know you wrote that. That’s great.
Billy Joel: That’s how my
father used to talk, like Popeye. So that was probably the first thing that
sold. It was on the first Hassles album. I think we sold, I don’t know, a dozen
copies, and I actually heard it on the radio once. But our big single was actually
a cover of a Sam and Dave record, “You Got Me Hummin.”
[Billy plays and sings.]
Billy Joel: It was a big
song by Sam and Dave. Everybody was covering soul records, and doing them
psychedelic, or doing their own arrangements of them. That was the Hassles’
hit. The first album was horrible. The second album was really horrible. And
then me and the drummer split off from The Hassles to form a power duo.
Alec Baldwin: Like Simon
and Garfunkel.
Billy Joel: Yeah, sure.
We were going to destroy the world with amplification. This was like a heavy
metal thing. We heard Zeppelin. It blew our minds.
Alec Baldwin: Iron
Butterfly.
[Billy and Alec sing
excerpt from “In-A-Gadda-Da-Vita.”]
Billy Joel: It went on
and on and on.
Alec Baldwin: Why were we
listening to that?
Billy Joel: Because
that’s what there was.
Alec Baldwin: 'In the
Garden of Eden' – isn’t that what someone said? That was like a nonsense lyric.
A friend of mine knows the guy that wrote that song. I think he was trying to
say 'in the Garden of Eden.'
Billy Joel: You actually
know the lyrics to it?
Alec Baldwin: To
"In-A-Gadda-Da-Vita?"
Billy Joel: Yeah. That’s
all I know. “In-A-Gadda-Da-Vita.”
Alec Baldwin: I don’t
remember the rest of it. I remember he explained it to me once at a party in
L.A. years ago, that he really meant 'in the Garden of Eden,' and then it
became “In-A-Gadda-Da-Vita.” He made a gibberish version of it.
Billy Joel: So they’re
bailout lyrics. Okay. I didn’t know that.
Alec Baldwin: So when you
get to this point where you say a couple of albums with The Hassles, and then,
when is it you? What happens?
Billy Joel: The bands got
smaller and smaller and smaller. Attila became a two-man band.
Alec Baldwin: So when you
and he went off, Attila was the two of you?
Billy Joel: Attila was
just the two of us.
Alec Baldwin: And what
did he play?
Billy Joel: He played
drums. I played Hammond organ, wired directly through amplifiers.
Alec Baldwin: So we’re
getting closer to Lawrence Welk now, the more we go. It’s getting closer.
You’ve almost got that accordion.
Billy Joel: But it was
louder. It was much louder. We got signed to Epic and we were on Epic for one
album and it was a colossal failure. We played one gig. I think it was in
Ungano’s, on the West Side in Manhattan, and people went fleeing from the
place. We were so loud. You could see blood coming out of people’s ears. It was
just horrible. Thank God it didn’t happen because I would’ve screamed myself
right out of the business.
Alec Baldwin: So after
you nearly kill a room full of people at Ungano’s, then what happens?
Billy Joel: Then we broke
up and I decided I no longer want to be a rock and roll star. I got that out of
my system. I was about 19 or 20. I want to write songs now. I’d like to explore
a little bit of folk music.
Alec Baldwin: And what
did you start to write?
Billy Joel: I started to
write the songs that are on an album called Cold Spring Harbor.
Alec Baldwin: Give me an
example of one of the earliest ones you remember writing.
[Billy plays and sings
excerpt from “Everybody Loves You Now.”]
Billy Joel: It’s kind of
Dylan-esque. I wanted to go down and play in the Village. Actually, I didn’t
even want to play anymore.
Alec Baldwin: Just you.
Billy Joel: Just me.
Alec Baldwin: With you
and a piano.
Billy Joel: Well, I got a
band to play the stuff with me, but I’m picturing it on guitar.
[Billy plays and sings
excerpt from “Everybody Loves You Now” with Dylan accent.]
Alec Baldwin: Did you
send him that song to record?
Billy Joel: I wanted him
to, but Bob writes his own stuff. He’s not going to do covers.
Alec Baldwin: He doesn’t
buy songs from other people.
Billy Joel: No, he does
not, and he does very well with his own writing. But I no longer wanted to be
the guy on stage. I wanted to be the guy behind the scenes, kind of a Jimmy
Webb kinda thing. This just happened to coincide with the era of the
singer-songwriter. Harry Chapin, Jim Croce. James Taylor was huge at the time.
Alec Baldwin: Jackson
Browne.
Billy Joel: Jackson
Browne – all these singer-songwriters. Even Carole King, who was a great
songwriter, became a singer-songwriter. So the advice I got was, well, if you
want people to hear these songs, why don’t you make your own album? Okay. I got
a record deal, and then I got traded to a record company on the West Coast
called Family Records. It was a guy named Artie Ripp. Perfect name. I was like
Pinocchio. I fell in with the 'Hi-diddly-dee, an actor’s life for me,' with
those people. And I recorded an album in L.A., I lived in L.A. for a little
while. They said, 'Okay, you made the album. Now that you’ve got an album, you
need to promote it, you need to go on the road and play, and promote the
album.' I said, 'Okay.' That’s a strange way to be a songwriter, but
that’s what other people were doing. Other people would be interested in my
material if I promoted it, promote the album, people would hear it. Well, the
album was mastered at the wrong speed, so a song like this.
[Billy plays and sings
excerpt from “She’s Got A Way.”]
Billy Joel: It got played
like this.
[Billy plays and sings
excerpt from “She’s Got A Way” in falsetto voice.]
Billy Joel: So if you
hear that recording, I sound like the Chipmunks.
Alec Baldwin: Well, kind
of.
Billy Joel: It was speeded
up. Ah it’s terrible. The album never went anywhere. Nothing happened. And uh,
I went on the road and promoted it. I never saw it in the stores. But that was
when I was me. That was just Billy Joel.
Alec Baldwin: So when
people buy that album now, that album has been re-released where it’s not at
that speed?
Billy Joel: It’s been
remastered but it’s still, there’s something wrong with it. It just doesn’t
sound right. I would advise people, don’t buy it. If you can steal it, steal
it.
Alec Baldwin: So Cold
Spring Harbor is the first album. It’s you and how many band members?
Billy Joel: Guitar, bass,
drums, and there were some violins that were put in by Artie Ripp. You know, he
was trying to be Phil Spector. It got all glopped up. It was supposed to be
more folk-y.
Alec Baldwin: You
recorded that in L.A.?
Billy Joel: Recorded it
in L.A.
Alec Baldwin: How long
were you in L.A.?
Billy Joel: Three years.
Alec Baldwin: What was
that like for you?
Billy Joel: Weird.
Alec Baldwin: Yeah. How?
Billy Joel: I went there
and I stayed on Santa Monica Boulevard. There’s this dumpy little place called
the Tropicana Motel, right there on Santa Monica Boulevard.
Alec Baldwin: With a
Duke’s Coffee Shop.
Billy Joel: Duke’s Coffee
Shop. They made the huge sandwiches for the poor musicians.
Alec Baldwin: I used to
have breakfast at Duke’s. It was great.
Billy Joel: For a buck
you could eat like a king. The place was a dump, but the postcards said “The
Tropicana” and it had a palm tree on it, so I sent postcards to all my friends.
'I’ve made it. I’m in Hollywood. I’m at the Tropicana.'
Alec Baldwin: It’s all
coming together. I’m having omelets on Santa Monica Boulevard for $1.00, and
they’re playing my songs at Chipmunk speed. But it’s all going great.
Billy Joel: Yeah, if you’re
from Long Island and you get a postcard with a palm tree on it, that says “The
Tropicana,” it’s, 'Oh, my God, he’s made it.'
Alec Baldwin: You and I
are from the same background.
Billy Joel: Yes.
Alec Baldwin: I mean, I’m
from the South Shore of Long Island, and I can see the friends you grew up with
are probably like mine. Where they probably get that postcard and they’re like,
'Joey, come here. I got a postcard from Billy. He’s at the Tropicana, here.
Un-fuckin’ believable.'
Billy Joel: Right. Wow,
he’s on the beach with girls, like The Beach Boys. He’s driving cars.
Alec Baldwin: When I
would make movies, my friends would say, 'Lemme ask you a question. When you do
a love scene with a broad in a movie, do you ever get excited, like yourself,
you know what I mean? Was it weird to make love to a woman in front of all them
people?'
Billy Joel: 'Can you pick
who you make out with?'
Alec Baldwin: Yeah,
they’re like, 'Do you enjoy that? Was it fun?'
Billy Joel: 'You meet any
groupies out there?'
Alec Baldwin: Yeah, and
I’m like, 'No, it’s not fun because 125 people staring at you while you’re
doing it.' And they’re like, 'Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. I forgot.'
Billy Joel: We got those
questions, 'What’s it like in a studio? Are there a lot of drugs and girls and
stuff?' No, you’re actually in a factory and you’re surrounded by equipment.
And they’re like, 'They don’t have big fish tanks full of cocaine? Chicks
coming in with bikinis and stuff, from the beach.'
Alec Baldwin: 'Rubbing
your neck and shoulders while you’re playing?'
Billy Joel: Yeah, that’s
what it looks like in the movies. 'Did you meet any movie stars?' I’m a
musician. How am I going to meet movie stars?
Alec Baldwin: And every
night you’re having dinner with who, all the big stars, right, and a fish tank
full of blow and chicks in bikinis, rubbing your shoulders, right? Every day
and night.
Billy Joel: That’s what
people think.
Alec Baldwin: Now, when
you did Cold Spring Harbor there. Did you do the next album out there?
Billy Joel: I did two
more albums out there.
Alec Baldwin: What did
you do out there?
Billy Joel: Actually, I
got a job after I did the Cold Spring Harbor album, I dropped out of
sight. I had to get out of this horrible deal that I’d signed. I signed away
everything – the copyrights, publishing, record royalties, everything. My first
child. I gave it all away, and I said, “I’ve got to get out of this deal,” and
I hid in L.A. and I worked in a piano bar under the name Bill Martin. This was
down in the Wilshire district. It’s not a real bar town, L.A. Long Island has a
pub on every corner. It’s a pub culture, every corner there’s a bar.
Alec Baldwin: So when
people close their eyes and they think of “Piano Man,” I think of a guy leaning
over a piano, and I think of a guy in a place on Long Island or in New York,
but you recorded that out in Los Angeles.
Billy Joel: I recorded it
in L.A., and that’s where I worked. Some people think I did it for years. I
worked in this piano bar for six months. I needed to make some money. I made
union scale. I got tips. I mostly played the major seven chords.
[Billy plays.]
Alec Baldwin: And how
does “Piano Man” start?
[Billy plays and sings
excerpt from “Piano Man.”]
Billy Joel: That kind of
thing. You know, a guy in the hotel lobby. They would request songs. I didn’t
even know the song. 'Can you play –' what’s that Hoagy Carmichael song?
Alec Baldwin: “Stardust.”
Billy Joel: “Stardust.”
And I would go, 'Sure.'
[Billy plays.]
Billy Joel: 'Can you play
“Misty?”' 'Sure.'
[Billy plays the same
thing.]
Billy Joel: And everybody
was drinking pretty heavy, because in an L.A. bar, these were all people who
lost at the track. Losers, just drinking like fish, and I got free drinks. Oh
my god.
Alec Baldwin: So then you
do Piano Man. What’s the next album after that you do in L.A.?
Billy Joel: We did Piano
Man in L.A. And there was an album—that wasn’t a hit album. People
perceived that to be a hit. It was not a hit.
Alec Baldwin: Piano
Man.
Billy Joel: Piano Man
was not a hit record. It was a turntable hit. In other words, it didn’t sell
through, but this is back in the early ‘70s. In those days they still had FM
progressive radio. Disc jockeys could spend whatever they wanted.
Alec Baldwin: WLIR, Denis
McNamara. Remember him? I was a kid at home, I was smoking you-know-what,
leaning out the window so my mom didn’t know, and on the radio we’d hear,
'WLIR. This is Denis McNamara. Jackson Browne.' I listened to this guy. He was
my childhood, Denis McNamara.
Billy Joel: We grew up
with these disc jockeys at night. Allison Steele, the Nightbird, and Roscoe
Zackalay.
Alec Baldwin: Vin Scelsa.
Billy Joel: Vin Scelsa.
And my favorite guy was, 'Scott Muni, comin’ at ya. That little Spooky Tooth.
And now, from England, Spooky Tooth. Scott Muni coming at you right now.' And
it was great voices just coming out of the air, and they played whatever they
wanted. They didn’t have program directors. They didn’t have consultants. And
people would call in. If they got enough requests, they would play a track, so
“Piano Man” got requested all the time. It was a 5-1/2-minute record. I mean,
it’s not an AM hit. It’s too long, and it was in three-quarter time.
[Billy plays.]
Billy Joel: Oom-pa-pa.
It’s a waltz. And it’s not really lyrics. They’re limericks. 'John at the bar
is a friend of mine. He gets me my drinks for free. He’s quick with the joke or
to light up your smoke, but there’s someplace that he’d rather be.' It could
be, 'There once was a girl from Nantucket.' So they’re limericks. And if anybody had said this was going to be
a hit record I’d tell them they’re out of their minds. But it became a
turntable hit, so people perceived it to be a sell-through. It wasn’t. The
album comes out, Streetlife Serenade. It’s the sophomore jinx. I did not
have enough time to write new material after the Piano Man album came
out. Piano Man made a lot of noise, got a lot of attention paid to it.
The record company wanted another follow-up right away. Okay. 'New album, now.'
But on the road, I haven’t had a chance to write. 'Nope, need it now.' I didn’t
have any material, and you can hear it.
Alec Baldwin: So what do
you do? What do you do when you’ve got nothing? What do you play?
Billy Joel: I had
nothing. I was empty. I was running on empty.
Alec Baldwin: But there’s
not nothing on the album. Where did that come from?
Billy Joel: Well I had one
song that I thought was okay.
Alec Baldwin: Which was?
Billy Joel: “The
Entertainer.” Which was that…another folk song.
[Billy plays excerpt from
“The Entertainer.”]
Billy Joel: I wrote it on
a guitar, actually. But that was it. That was probably the one song that I had
finished, and boom, I’m in the studio and the clock is ticking. There are two
instrumentals on that album – the “Root Beer Rag,” which is just a piano
ragtime thing, and this ersatz, Western movie theme called the “The Mexican
Connection,” because I was living with L.A. and I was fascinated with
Westerns.
[Billy plays.]
Billy Joel: There’s a
song, actually, on the Piano Man album called “The Ballad of Billy the
Kid,” which, historically, is completely inaccurate. I just used Western-sounding
things. He wasn’t from Wheeling, West Virginia. He was actually from Brooklyn.
A boy with a six-gun in his hand, and then he robbed his way from Utah to
Oklahoma – he never got out of New Mexico.
Alec Baldwin: You’re
ruining the song for me now. I don’t want to know how sausage is made.
Billy Joel: That’s ok,
East and West—
Alec Baldwin: “The Ballad
of Billy the Kid” is fine by me the way it is. Don’t screw it up for me. I
don’t want facts.
Billy Joel: No, but I
think it’s funny that it was just Western sounding things. “East and west of
the Rio Grande.” Well, it can’t be east and west because the Rio Grande runs
east and west.
Alec Baldwin: God damn
it. I know which way the Rio Grande runs.
Billy Joel: 'And the
crowd poured in to watch the hanging of Billy the Kid.' Well, Billy the Kid
wasn’t hung. He was shot. Of course, we don’t know if he was hung.
Alec Baldwin: Okay. Now
you win. Now I hate the song. I hate it. It’s a fraud. But what are the songs
on Streetlife that were memorable?
Billy Joel: Nothing. “The
Entertainer” is the only one. There was a song about a hooker I was in love
with, and I wanted her to leave her profession and be with me but she made too
much money and I couldn’t afford her. It was called “Roberta.” What else was on
that album? “Souvenir,” a nice song.
[Billy plays and sings
excerpt from “Souvenir.”]
Billy Joel: There’s only
like another fifteen seconds of it. That was a nice song but it was this short.
And other than that, there’s “The Mexican Connection,” “Root Beer Rag,” it was
ok.
Alec Baldwin: You
finished Streetlife when you were in L.A. Then what do you do?
Billy Joel: I finished Streetlife
and it comes out and it dives right off the chart. The album after that was Turnstiles.
I moved back to New York. I said, 'I’m going back to New York.' This was in
19—the mid ‘70s. New York was in the dumps. They were going to default.
Alec Baldwin: 'Ford to
New York: Drop Dead.'
Billy Joel: 'Ford to New
York: Drop Dead.' I saw that headline and people in L.A. were like, 'Ha,
ha, ha. Screw New York. We can’t wait until New York goes down the dumps,' and
I said, 'To hell with that. If New York’s going down the tubes, I’m going back.
I want to be there for this.' And I’m picturing this apocalypse. I actually
wrote a song called “Miami 2017,” thinking about the year 2017, when I’m an old
man, telling my grandchildren, 'I was there. I saw the lights go out on
Broadway.' It’s a science fiction song.
[Billy plays and sings
excerpt from “Miami 2017.”]
Billy Joel: And I’m
picturing I’m an old man, in 2017, and I’m living in Miami, which I’m closing
in on now.
Alec Baldwin: You and me
both.
Billy Joel: I’m kind of
fulfilling my own prophecy here. And the other song, which is—
[Billy plays and sings
excerpt from “New York State of Mind.”]
Billy Joel: Or we could
do it like this. 'Tony, com on, take it.'
[Alec and Billy sing
excerpt from “New York State of Mind” in Tony Bennett voice.]
Billy Joel: Yep, that’s
it, and he recorded it. I was hoping other people would do that song. But I was
back in New York, I was home again.
Alec Baldwin: Are you
glad you were?
Billy Joel: I was
thrilled.
Alec Baldwin: So leaving
L.A. was just meant to be.
Billy Joel: I even wrote
a song, “Say Goodbye to Hollywood.” Thanks, it’s been great, but goodbye. After
three years it went sour on me. When I first moved out there, oh, the weather’s
great, and all the chicks and the palm trees. Well, after three years,
everybody’s full of crap here. 'I’m a producer.' 'Producer of what?' You
know, we all produce gas. We produce something.
Alec Baldwin: But I found
that for me, it was healthier for me to be in an environment where show
business was one mountain peak in a range of mountains, meaning when you’re in
New York, and I’d be at a party, and some kind of real tweedy-looking, Daniel
Moynihan-looking type of guy would be at a party and say to me, 'And what do
you do for a living, young man?' He’d say to me years ago. 'Well, I work in the
movie business.' 'Have you made any films I might have seen?' He’d say. 'Olivia
and I don’t go to the films very often.' And I thought, this is great. A guy I
can talk to, who’s not going to have his hand down my pants, you know what I
mean.
Billy Joel: Rub my neck
and shoulders.
Alec Baldwin: Exactly.
Billy Joel: 'I’ve learned
to dance with a hand in my pants.' That’s from “The Entertainer.”
Alec Baldwin: When you go
back to New York, though, where do you go? The city?
Billy Joel: I moved to
Highland Falls, which is right up the Hudson.
Alec Baldwin: Why?
Billy Joel: Because we
weren’t ready to move lock, stock, and barrel back into the city.
Alec Baldwin: Who’s we?
Billy Joel: I was married
at the time. My first. Ex One.
Alec Baldwin: Where is
she from?
Billy Joel: From Syosset.
Alec Baldwin: So she went
out there with you and came back?
Billy Joel: She went out
there with me and came back with me. And this was— Turnstiles was
recorded in New York. I produced it myself, which, in hindsight, was probably
not a good idea, but I didn’t want people telling me what band to work with,
how to do the songs. I wanted to do it my way.
Alec Baldwin: Are you
glad you did?
Billy Joel: I was glad I
did it at the time because I needed to use my own musicians. I didn’t want to
use session men. I didn’t want to use studio players. I wanted my road band. It
was a Long Island band and we were doing great on the road. We weren’t selling
any records but the crowds were going crazy. We were blowing headliners off the
stage. The Doobie Brothers, everywhere we played, The Beach Boys – we would get
better applause than them.
Alec Baldwin: This was
when Turnstiles came out?
Billy Joel: Yes.
Alec Baldwin: But Turnstiles
sold records, didn’t it?
Billy Joel: No. Turnstiles
didn’t sell anything.
Alec Baldwin: You’ve got
to be kidding me.
Billy Joel: No hits. “New
York State of Mind” is now perceived to be a hit, but it wasn’t a hit. “Say
Goodbye to Hollywood” wasn’t a hit. None of the records were hits.
Alec Baldwin: I love all
those songs.
Billy Joel: But you know
them from FM radio. They were still playing those things on FM. Not until The
Stranger, which was the next album, in ’77 –
Alec Baldwin: And off
that comes how many hits?
Billy Joel: Four.
Alec Baldwin: Which were?
Billy Joel: “Just the Way
You Are,” “Moving Out,” “Only the Good Die Young,” and “She’s Always a Woman.”
Alec Baldwin: “She’s
Always a Woman” and “Just the Way You Are” are love songs.
Billy Joel: Well, “She’s
Always a Woman” is a love song, or perceived as a love song.
Alec Baldwin: Well, I
would say they’re very romantic songs.
Billy Joel: Yeah. I had
romantic ballads before that, from Cold Spring Harbor. “She’s Got a
Way.” Piano Man, 'If I only had the words to tell you, you’re my home.'
And then Turnstiles, “Summer Highland Falls,” I know it’s about manic
depression, but about a relationship. But I was writing ballads. “I’ve Loved
These Days,” about a man and a woman, and then from The Stranger, “Just
the Way You Are,” which is just a pure out-and-out love song; “She’s Always a
Woman,” which is kind of a double-edged sword there. I had had ballads before
that.
Alec Baldwin: But did you
find that people started to buy the ballads, that those became the most popular
songs? They often do.
Billy Joel: I had no idea
there was such a big record. “Just the Way You Are” became this monster.
Alec Baldwin: Like The
Beatles.
Billy Joel: Yeah.
Alec Baldwin: What’s
after The Stranger?
Billy Joel: After The
Stranger we started playing coliseums and arenas, the big, big rooms, and I
went right back on the road again and I started writing again.
Alec Baldwin: You start
writing for bigger rooms.
Billy Joel: Yes.
Alec Baldwin: You did.
Billy Joel: I was aware,
now we’re playing the big places, and we’ve got to write bigger songs. I’ve got
have bigger music, energy, because you can’t play to a coliseum with a handful of
ballads. You’ve got to knock ‘em out. “Big Shot” was on that album. “Zanzibar,”
“Stiletto.” It got bigger. It got rounder, fatter,
Alec Baldwin: Fuller.
Billy Joel: Fuller,
faster, you know, more high-energy stuff.
Alec Baldwin: 'Harder,
faster, deeper' as they say in the adult film industry.
Billy Joel: Yeah, that
was it, pretty much. Went into the triple-X.
Alec Baldwin: So you
started going triple-X, artistically.
Billy Joel: That won
Album of the Year. The Stranger actually should have, but I was up against
Saturday Night Fever, which nobody was going to touch with a ten-foot
pole. Everybody even said that. The only reason you got 52nd Street was
because we should have given it to The Stranger last year.
Alec Baldwin: This was
your Color of Money.
Billy Joel: Yes, exactly.
Alec Baldwin: This is
Paul Newman getting an Oscar.
Billy Joel: It’s all
political. Well, you know how this works. What was after that? Glass Houses
was 1980, and that was pure power pop.
Alec Baldwin: Is
there ever one that you sit there and you really have to strain? I mean, you
get it and you like it, you love it, and it does well. Is there a song that
didn’t come easily to you, that you really had to work to crack it, so to
speak?
Billy Joel: The whole Nylon
Curtain album, which was 1982. The album before it, which was Glass
Houses was just pure fun – playing with the band, got a good guitar player.
We just had a blast making the record. The next album, I wanted to write my
masterpiece, my Seargent Pepper, as it were. Instead of writing from the
inside out, like starting with the seed of a song, we started with sounds and
ideas and thoughts and studio techniques. We went from the outside in, so it
was a whole different technique of creating recordings, and we really didn’t
know what we had until almost the final mix. What is this thing? And we’re
experimenting with stuff, and it took a year.
Alec Baldwin: Were you
still producing?
Billy Joel: No, no.
Alec Baldwin: Who was
producing?
Billy Joel: I had Phil
Ramone, who started with The Stranger in 1977.
Alec Baldwin: When you
have someone like Ramone – because again, I know nothing about your business
except what I see and observe – what does someone like Ramone, what did he do
for you? How did he help you?
Billy Joel: Well Phil
Ramone has a background. When he was a kid he was a child prodigy on the
violin. He was a violinist. He was from South Africa, actually, but he knew
music. And now, he had years and years in the trenches as an engineer. He
recorded JFK speeches. I think when you see the Marilyn Monroe thing at Madison
Square Garden –
Alec Baldwin: 'Happy
Birthday, Mr. President.'
Billy Joel: – that’s Phil
Ramone. He was the engineer on those tapes. I mean, he’s done some amazing
recordings, but he never got credit as a producer. So I’m saying, 'Who’s this
guy, Phil Ramone?' I keep seeing Phil Ramone, Phil Ramone, Phil Ramone.
Paul Simon used him as an engineer. I said, 'I want to work with this guy,
because he looks like he knows what he’s doing. He knows how to get good sound.
He knows how to deal with things sonic.' And when he came in, boom, we knew we
had a professional guy. It was like working with another great musician. He
knows how to play the studio like we know how to play our instruments.
Everything changed. The band just rose to the occasion. We were having a blast.
Alec Baldwin: So like a
great producer very often in films, like anywhere, any creative enterprise, I
find that the people that are the most successful and talented producers are
the ones who, although they may not be able to do it themselves, they know what
you need to do. They know how to help you get to your highest level.
Billy Joel: They cut to
what the synergy should be. They know what the dynamics should be in the
studio.
Alec Baldwin: Does he
come to you and go, 'Don’t do that?'
Billy Joel: Yes.
Alec Baldwin: And you
listen to him.
Billy Joel: I would
listen to him.
Alec Baldwin: You’d try
it his way.
Billy Joel: We tried it
his way. It was mutual respect. When we did “Just the Way You Are,” originally
the drum was playing like a cha-cha [Billy plays] and we hated it. I hated the
thing. I hate this song. I hate it. The drummer couldn’t figure out what to
play. But Phil actually told him, said, 'Play a backwards samba.' [Billy
plays.] And it worked. It was like a backwards samba. What are we doing? We
didn’t know what we were doing, but Phil was right. I came in with the idea of
playing “Only the Good Die Young” as a reggae. [Billy plays.] Liberty throws
his sticks at me. He goes, 'Why are you doing this? The closest you’ve been to
Jamaica is Queens. What are you doing?'
Alec Baldwin: It’s
changing trains to go down to Seaford.
Billy Joel: Change at
Jamaica.
Alec Baldwin: Change at
Jamaica. It’s the train to Speonk.
Billy Joel: That’s it. He
said, 'I’m not playing this. I’m not playing it. So what are we going to do?'
So Phil came up with this shuffle against straight fours. [Billy plays.] And
the guitars are going 'banana, banana, bap, bap, banana.' And it worked. It was
like these two things jammed into each other, and Phil knows how to do that.
When we’d get tired or we’d get discouraged, he’d say, 'Just stay. Stay a
little longer. Try one more. A’right, take a break. Let’s have some Chinese.
OK, go back in.' The post-Chinese food takes were always good. I don’t know why
that was.
Alec Baldwin: That MSG,
man. It gets right into the fingertips.
Billy Joel: It worked.
Alec Baldwin: Think of
where Mozart would’ve been if they had MSG back then.
Billy Joel: Oh, wow. He
did pretty good. Forty symphonies.
Alec Baldwin: He went as
far as you could go without MSG, I think. And then you do Nylon Curtain.
That’s ’82?
Billy Joel: In ’82 was The
Nylon Curtain.
Alec Baldwin: And you
said you wanted this to be your Sargent Pepper. What was it?
Billy Joel: It’s my
favorite album, really.
Alec Baldwin: Why?
Billy Joel: Because I
could hear all the work that went into it, all the textures, all the layers.
Alec Baldwin: What’s a
song that you’re particularly fond of from that?
Billy Joel: Oh, geez.
Every song on that album I like. “Surprises.”
[Billy plays and sings
excerpt from “Surprises.”]
Billy Joel: No hits.
“Allentown” was kind of a hit off that album.
Alec Baldwin: I remember
that.
Billy Joel: Didn’t really
sell a lot of records. “Pressure” was the big hit, I think. [Billy plays.]
Tchaikovsky. What’s that one from Swan Lake? [Billy plays.]
Alec Baldwin: At least
you’re ripping off the greats. Those Russians, man, go with Tchaikovsky.
Billy Joel: Watch out for
the Germans, though.
Alec Baldwin: What did
you do after Nylon Curtain?
Billy Joel: After The
Nylon Curtain, because it was such an intensive labor, The Nylon Curtain,
something very dense and very complex, I wanted to do something simple and dumb
and happy, and I did An Innocent Man, which is really an homage to all
the music of my teenage years – Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons with “Uptown
Girl.”
Alec Baldwin: And that
was a hit.
Billy Joel: It was a big hit.
It was a joke.
[Billy plays and sings
excerpt from “Uptown Girl” in Frankie Valli voice.]
Billy Joel: He had this
impossibly high voice. [Billy sings and plays] And I realized something.
Remember the song “Rag Doll”? [Billy sings and plays.] The verse was, 'I love
you just the way you are.' I’m like, 'Uh oh. Is that where I heard that before?
Just the way you are.' And then I was trying to do Little Anthony and the
Imperials.
[Billy plays and sings
excerpt from “This Night.”]
Billy Joel: You’ll recognize
the chorus because it goes like this.
[Billy plays and sings
chorus from “This Night.”]
Billy Joel: Which is the
Pathetique by Beethoven.
[Billy plays excerpt from
“Pathetique.”]
Billy Joel: I gave him
credit on the back. L.V. Beethoven. So somebody’s going, 'Billy’s co-writing
with somebody. L.V. Beethoven.' I said, 'It’s Beethoven, for crying out loud.'
But that was a fun album. I met Christie. I had just gotten divorced from Ex
One and here I am meeting Whitney Houston when she was a model, Elle MacPherson,
I’m dating her, I’m dating Christie Brinkley. This is fantastic. I feel like
I’m 16 years old again.
Alec Baldwin: It’s going
well.
Billy Joel: It’s all
going great, and I’m a rock star. I got a pad at the old St. Moritz on Central
Park South, which I think is now the Ritz-Carlton.
Alec Baldwin: Which is
now the Ritz Cartlon.
Billy Joel: But the
elevator would open and there was my apartment. I was the only apartment on
that floor. It was very impressive. So this music was me being a teenager all
over again – falling in love, having romance and all that great stuff.
Alec Baldwin: So why’d
you get married?
Billy Joel: I don’t know.
I was in love. You’re asking me?
Alec Baldwin: I was gonna
say, it’s funny because you think to yourself, 'Why get married?'
Billy Joel: It was all
going so good.
Alec Baldwin: But not
that getting married means bad, but is that a part of your makeup, which is
married, family? Was marriage the right thing to do?
Billy Joel: I was madly
in love.
Alec Baldwin: Yeah, when you’re
really in love, you marry them.
Billy Joel: That’s it.
Alec Baldwin: That’s how
I feel.
Billy Joel: But I still
feel like I can be madly in love and not be married.
Alec Baldwin: Yes.
Billy Joel: I was married
three times.
Alec Baldwin: When did
you go to Russia?
Billy Joel: ’87.
Alec Baldwin: How did
that happen?
Billy Joel: Well, we
played in Cuba in 1979. They did this thing called the Havana Jam. Cubans came
up here and we went to Havana. We played at the Karl Marx Theater in Havana. It
looks like Bloomingdale’s, the script. The Karl Marx Theater. It looks like a
department store. And everybody gets up on stage. There are other American
artists – Stephen Stills, 'Viva la revolution. Viva Fidel;' Kris Kristofferson,
'Viva la revolution. Viva Fidel,' and he’s talking in Spanish. I get up on
stage, I’m the last act. I say, 'Yo no habla Espanol' and I went into “Big
Shot.” [Billy plays.] And the kids went, 'Aahh,' and stormed the stage. They
didn’t want to hear Viva. We hear this crap all the time. We want to hear “Big
Shot.” I said, 'We’ve got something going here. We’re being subversive with
rock and roll.' This is what I like.
Alec Baldwin: And they
loved you there?
Billy Joel: They loved
it.
Alec Baldwin: How did
that feel to you? What was the first place you played a big concert at? When
you were a star, you’re a big music star? You’re one of the biggest music stars
ever and you go to a foreign country and you realize music just transcends all
of it.
Billy Joel: Germany. I
think it was in Frankfurt.
Alec Baldwin: What year?
Billy Joel: ’77, ’78.
We’d had a hit with The Stranger. I’d played in England but the English,
they’re kind of fickle. They like you for about a month and then you’re
yesterday’s papers. 'Oh, we like that Billy Joel.' Actually, I wasn’t big there
until "Uptown Girl," but in Germany we had a couple of hits, and the
Germans went berserk. They don’t have seats. You’re getting a standing ovation
when you walk on the stage because they can’t sit down. This is great and it
actually changes the energy in the room. They’re all standing, yelling, 'Billy!
Billy!' and I’m thinking, I guess they don’t know what they did to my family.
'Yeah, Billy.' And I’m thinking, ‘So I’m thinking, this is how Adolph must have
felt.’
Alec Baldwin: Yeah, when
they love you they let you know it.
Billy Joel: It’s scary,
like, okay, let’s go invade Poland. Come on. Let’s go. But there was a great,
great audience. They’re tearing at your hands, like a Detroit heavy metal
crowd. Ripping at my hands and tearing my clothes. This is great. That was the
first time in a foreign country where I knew something was [crosstalk].
Alec Baldwin: The trip to
Russia in ’87, was that your first time there?
Billy Joel: It was the
first time they’d ever had a major act from the West, from America. People had
gone there before but played with small P.A. systems in little private rooms.
We played at the Lenin Stadium, the Olympic Stadium, and we brought a western
P.A. system, the same P.A. system we’d use in Madison Square Garden. They’d
never heard a P.A. system like that. The helicopters come in at the beginning
of “Goodnight Saigon” and they’re looking around for the helicopters. And then
the hard rock is hitting and the drums – they started going berserk. There were
security guards going around, giving people sedatives because they thought they
were having fits. The Cold War ended to me right then. This was still when
Reagan was calling it 'The Evil Empire.' I’m thinking, we’re not going to
have a war with these people. They can’t even get toilet paper right. We’re not
going to fight with them. I don’t want to fight them. They love us. Everywhere
I went, it was 'Viva America, long live America.' This is great. The Cold War
ended so I was thrilled that that went the way it did.
Alec Baldwin: Let me ask
you a question. You’re funny. You could’ve done that with your eyes closed.
Everything it takes to be an actor you could’ve done, but you never wanted to
do that, never.
Billy Joel: I never was
comfortable in front of a camera.
Alec Baldwin: Really?
Even though you had to perform in front of a camera for the last 30 years,
basically.
Billy Joel: Yes. Make
videos, which was torture for me.
Alec Baldwin: To a degree
you comfortable in front of a camera so long as you were playing.
Billy Joel: Not even
then. Not even then. I was aware of the camera. It was an invader. It was
invasive to me. I became a musician because I never felt I was photogenic. I
was never happy with how I looked. It’s about a microphone, not about a camera.
I was very comfortable in the studio. I’m very comfortable far away on a stage,
or an album cover. You could make it look however you want, and people would
say, 'Oh, you’re shorter than I thought.' I said, 'Well, the album cover is
only this big. How do you know?'
Whenever there was a
camera it kind of destroyed what I was trying to create. It took away the
imagination. I could look however I wanted – I could look like Cary Grant – but
I saw it reduced to an image. I went, 'No, no, no. That’s not who I am. Don’t
look at that guy,' and I realized I could’ve done that but I loved music so
much, that’s the way I went. Some people can do both.
Alec Baldwin: Most don’t.
Bowie didn’t do it, really. He tried. Sting didn’t do it. Jagger didn’t do it.
The Beatles never did it, except that they played the Beatles.
Billy Joel: But then
there’s some actors who were originally musicians and they now just basically
act.
Alec Baldwin: I’ve always
said this – acting is what you do when you have no musical ability. If I could
do what you do, I would never do what I do.
Billy Joel: That’s what
actors say. They all want to be musicians.
Alec Baldwin: I would
never, ever, ever, ever waste five minutes of doing what I do if I could do
what you do.
Billy Joel: That’s—a lot
of actors say that. But you’re so good at what you do. No. If I could do what
you do – if I could sing, if I could play, if I could write.
Alec Baldwin: A film or a
television program, you have to make an appointment with that and watch that.
You can listen to music when you’re jogging, while you’re at the gym, while
you’re making love, while you’re having dinner, while you’re in the car. It can
be the soundtrack to your life, all day long if you want it.
Billy Joel: In church.
Alec Baldwin: Anywhere.
Music is everywhere and music is everything, and acting is, like I said, what
you do when you have no musical talent. So you got divorced the second time and
got remarried and divorced a third time.
Billy Joel: Right.
Alec Baldwin: And when
you have these things happen – because I know these situations in my life have
a big effect on my life – does it affect you? Do you write songs about that?
Billy Joel: No. I stopped
writing songs about it when I got divorced the second time. That was in ’93.
Actually, in ’94 the divorce happened. The album, River of Dreams came
out and I realized, you know what? I’m spinning out the story of my life to all
these stranger. I’m kind of sick and tired of everybody knowing my personal
life and how I feel about this one and that one.
Alec Baldwin: You are?
Did you resent that?
Billy Joel: I didn’t
resent it. I just decided to clam up. I feel like I’ve given away pieces of
myself. Maybe something I should’ve given to the relationship I gave to the
work, and the work was so important. And it’s all-consuming. If you’re going to
do it right, you have to jump in with both feet and do it 100 percent. Music
will do that but it’s a very harsh mistress, music. You have to do it all the
way, and maybe I didn’t do things I should’ve done, or maybe I didn’t take care
of business the way I should’ve taken care of business, because of the music.
So I stopped writing songs about my personal relationships, but I kept writing
music. And after the third marriage didn’t work – I tried marriage, three
times. I tried it three times. I never gave up on it. I just realized, I dunno,
it just, it doesn’t work.
Alec Baldwin: People
don’t appreciate how, it’s like – to have a relationship in this business that
works, you’ve got be really lucky, man. It’s so much luck, you know. Because
like you said, the career is the mistress, and you’re out there working. Like I
would look at my ex-wife or ex-girlfriends and I’d think, what would the
alternative be? You want me to have no options and no work and I’m staying home
all the time?
Billy Joel: Yeah, but on
the other hand, how much of you are they getting? If you’re in a part, if you
take on the role, it doesn’t come off at 5:00 in the afternoon when most people
leave their jobs. You have to be that character through the whole project. Now,
when I’m writing, I’ve got to stay in harness. I’ve got to be that songwriter
guy. I’m preoccupied – maybe I should change that to a B-flat, you know that
chord back to that—I’m obsessed with it. I wonder how much of me they’re not
getting because of that. I don’t know if you’re like that when you’re doing a
part.
Alec Baldwin: I find that
in film it’s different because in film you don’t really have a chance unless
you work with a tremendously intense group of people. I’ve never gotten close
to that in film. Film is always in pieces. You know, you’re in your room—
Billy Joel: It’s not
linear.
Alec Baldwin: It’s not
like a play. Now, when I’ve done plays, it’s different. When you do it well,
you can sit back and light up a cigarette and you’re like, 'Well, well, well.
We nailed that one. Just write it down in the books. There it is. We’ve done it
again.' You really feel some satisfaction. Do you feel that way when you
perform?
Billy Joel: When we
perform we got that.
Alec Baldwin: When you do
a show. Do you come offstage after a show and you sit there and go, 'Well, there
it is.'
Billy Joel: When it was a
good one.
Alec Baldwin: Ladies and
gentlemen, Billy Joel and his ensemble.
Billy Joel: They’ll be
talking about this for a while, for a few days.
Alec Baldwin: One for the
annals.
Billy Joel: Yes, but we
also know when we stunk. We come off the stage going, 'That sucked. We were
terrible.'
Alec Baldwin: 'Please
don’t remember that one.'
Billy Joel: Right. 'Why
did they applaud?'
Alec Baldwin: Last Play
at Shea – do you think you did well?
Billy Joel: Yeah, that
was good. They were both good shows. The Last Double-Play at Shea, the two
nights. Yes, that was exhilarating. It was a hometown crowd and it was
exhilarating. We were onstage for three and a half hours, and I didn’t realize
how hot it was. I was sweating. I’m watching the movie of me onstage. 'Somebody
give that guy a towel. He’s like soaking. Yuk. He’s so wet and slimy. Wipe him
off.' But we were having such a good time. We walked off, and for weeks after
we’re kind of amping from it.
Alec Baldwin: New York
loves you.
Billy Joel: I know, and I
love New York. That’s why I live here. But I put away the recording part of my
career and I put away, for the time being, performing.
Alec Baldwin: What’s that
music?
Billy Joel: That’s my
telephone. Do you hear it? It’s The Godfather.
Alec Baldwin: It’s the
theme from The Godfather. That’s interesting. That’s perfect. The theme
from The Godfather is your ringtone on your phone?
Billy Joel: Yes.
Alec Baldwin: That’s
amazing. I’ve got to think about what my ringtone should be.
Billy Joel: The guys on
the road call me 'The Godfather.' 'Why do you come to me. Buona sera.'
Alec Baldwin: 'Buona
sera. What have I ever done for you to disrespect me this way. You never invite
me to your house for coffee.' Do you appreciate who you are? People love you.
They adore you. They love you and they love your talent. You are so talented.
It makes me want to choke up how talented you are. Do you know you are?
Billy Joel: I know I have
a talent for music. I don’t think I’m all that good. I think I have a good
perspective on it. I can separate the star stuff from the musician stuff. The
music is really important to me.
Alec Baldwin: They have
to stay separate, don’t they?
Billy Joel: Well, one is
a job and one is a life. The job thing, I can take off at 5:00 in the
afternoon, the rock star thing. I go shopping, I cook my own food, I wash the
dishes, I take out the garbage. I know who that guy is. And the music has
nothing to do with money or career. It’s just part of me. It’s like love.
Music, love, food, friendship, my daughter – all these great things.
Alec Baldwin: How’s your
daughter doing?
Billy Joel: She’s great.
But I know how to take the job hat off and just kind of be normal. I’ve learned
how to do it. It took a long time to separate them out. I can be a musician and
not be a rock star. I’m still trying to convince people I’m not a rock star.
'No. Yes you are. You are a rock star.' I’m like, 'Okay, fine.' But a lot of
that has a job aspect to it. I work very
hard at writing because that’s my deepest love. I think that’s really where I
belong. The rock star thing I’ve never really been comfortable with because I
don’t think I look like a rock star. I didn’t really set out to be a rock star.
I became a rock star serendipitously.
Alec Baldwin: You became
a rock star in spite of yourself.
Billy Joel: In spite of
myself, which is hysterical to me.
Alec Baldwin: As much as
you tried to kill it. Don’t put that camera too close to me.
Billy Joel: Exactly. I
don’t want to make a good video. Let me make a bad video because I just want to
get out of here. I don’t want to be in a photo session. I hate taking pictures.
I don’t want to go to this opening. I don’t want to go to that schmooze-fest. I
just didn’t do any of that stuff. But I’m comfortable with it now.
Alec Baldwin: Billy Joel
says he doesn’t look back on his life that much. Last year he decided not to
publish his long-awaited memoir entitled The Book of Joel. He said, instead,
quote, 'The best expression of my life and its ups and down has been, and
remains, my music.' What’s a song that
you think to yourself, 'You know, I really still enjoy hearing that song?'
It doesn’t have to be a hit. What’s one you just like that you haven’t
played, that you really, really like.
Billy Joel: I’ve been
doing master’s classes at colleges and I get to play all these obscure songs
that I never played over the 30 or 40 years I’ve been playing. I played one the
other night and I said, 'That’s a really good song.' There’s no rhyme. It’s not
until the very end when the rhyme kicks in, but the lyrics works. It’s from The
Nylon Curtain and it’s called “Where’s the Orchestra?”
[Billy plays and sings
“Where’s the Orchestra?”]
Alec Baldwin: You’re the
king.
Billy Joel: Thank you.
Alec Baldwin: No really,
you’re the king, man.
No comments:
Post a Comment